Curse

Lanier · May 31, 2010, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Ok I'll give two replies on this.

First, in this build, the way you put it, there's no place for Drain Delusions, and Power Drain is better. That's true.

Second reply would be this: I would personally put Empathy on that skillbar instead of Spiritual Pain, and Mistrust instead of Shatter, and would use DD. And I never liked By Ural's Hammer and would prefer Pain Inverter. But I accept argumentation that 25% damage increase for 10 out of 30 seconds makes Ural better than PI (doesn't seem to me but could be). I'm quite fond of instant kill that PI does though. As for Mistrust vs Shatter, it's 79 adjacent damage vs 142 nearby damage (for 5 more energy), and there's a hex (Mind Wrack) left for Drain Delusions.

Well I would hardly call that damage abusive. 79 damage which can struck adjacent, and uses one mesmer hex.

Comparably, with Ineptitude illusion build I use, I spam
Clumsiness which is 97 damage, plus possibly adjacent, plus interrupts attack (passive heal), doesn't require hex;
Signet of Clumsiness, which costs no energy, 63 damage, possible adjacent, rare knockdown, requires no hex but requires attacking;
Wandering Eye, 115 damage, nearby range;
and of course Ineptitude 142 damage, adjacent, plus permanent blindness

I dont claim the build to be perfect by any means. Im still working on improving it and I will definitely test your suggestions.

The Josip · Jun 01, 2010, 12:20 AM // 00:20

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Originally Posted by FireWhale

I think you're forgetting, The Josip, that drain delusions is a semi-two-slot energy management skill. If you don't have an cheap, easy to apply hex, it's going to cost you two slots. For example, the fragility in your build serves very little purpose except to act as a disposable hex.

That depends on your skill level.

In a good build, with a good player, Drain Delusions will use 1 slot, not semi-two slots.

Fragility in my build also isn't useless Drain Delusion-feeding skill. Fragility is completely independent. It's AoE hex that will trigger when I cast Ineptitude, and possibly when blindness expires. And it will also trigger on other conditions because my party consists of 8 people not 1 person. And even if they don't, with Ineptitude alone it can do as much damage as Wastrel's Demise, and serves as a cover hex - monsters will waste time and recharge on removing Fragility instead of perhaps something else. You never know.
If I conclude Fragility isn't worth it because of team build and other stuff, I can easily replace it with Phantom Pain - which is 100+ damage, so more than Spiritual Pain or Wastrel's Demise, which many use. Decent skill.
Besides, I actually use Drain Delusions more on target that is hexed with Calculated Risk and is about to die.

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Also, you seem to be falling into the very unappealing hole of "my way is the only acceptable way".

Not at all. I have no problem with the build Lanier posted. It's certainly a build that will do nice damage. And Drain Delusions doesn't fit his build, as I said, in previous post.

I have nothing against people using different builds, I do that all the time. And I experiment a lot.

But Drain Delusions is - on paper and in practice - the best e-management mesmer has. Whether it fits build X is another question. You may find my attitude unappealing, but it doesn't make it less true

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Your build doesn't deal with spell casters. at all.

Theorycraft. The problem with theorycraft is lack of touch with reality. Try that build in PvE and see that it does deal with casters too.

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Originally Posted by Lanier

I dont claim the build to be perfect by any means. Im still working on improving it and I will definitely test your suggestions.

There's nothing wrong with your build in itself.

If you want to test something, try once that Ineptitude build I posted and let me know how it goes

You can put anything you want instead of Pain Inverter, I didn't really use it much. Attributes I used were 16 Illusion 10 Insp and FC.

Domination builds are very versatile - a lot of interesting skills you can choose from. But I quite liked Ineptitude now.

The Drunkard · Jun 01, 2010, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

[[Auspicious Incantation] is used a lot. Otherwise, there's [[Power Drain], [[Drain Enchantment], [[Leech Signet], [[Drain Delusions], and [[Arcane Conodrum].

Seconding this.

FireWhale · Jun 01, 2010, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Well first off, I really really don't think fragility is worth it. Your choice, though. I agree with your choice of phantom pain a lot more.

Secondly, I don't understand your statements about drain delusions being the best e-management skill a mesmer has. Especially since we all agree that other energy management skills are better in other viable mesmer builds. Considering that "best" is merely the superlative of "better", we can conclude that drain delusions is not the best. It is only a very good option that is useful in many builds (as you point out, it is better than lyssa's aura for several builds). And I think no one here is disagreeing with that. Can't you just leave it at that, rather than affront our sensibilities with talk about how DD is "the best" (especially since there are several qualifiers of what makes a skill "the best").

And of course I've tried this build. I hated the fact healers would just stand there spamming spells, oftentimes just making a complete waste of my short-duration trigger-on-attack hexes. So no, I'm not theory crafting. I honestly found it frustrating that I could completely waste an ineptitude before the foe triggered it. I posted this build in another topic:

8+1 fast casting, 12+1+3 illusion, 10+1 inspiration
Frustration
Clumsiness
Wandering Eye
Signet of Clumsiness
Leech Signet
Power Drain
Cry of Pain
Tease

Not only does it carry the same omph as your build, Frustration synergizes with clumsiness, wandering, and sig of clumsiness (addint not just packets of 20 damage like fragility, but packets of 53 to 106). tease, power drain, and cry of pain turn into damage (100+ damage) when used with frustration AND it allows one to actively engage spellcasters (providing protection against their offensive spells, if you will note) rather than wait for them to stop casting spells and potentially wasting hexes meant for physical damage dealers.

Finally, you can swap leech signet for DD if you wish to drain frustration too. It's not a bad idea, but I found I did not need any additional energy management when I had tease and power drain.

The Josip · Jun 01, 2010, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireWhale

I don't understand your statements about drain delusions being the best e-management skill a mesmer has.

That's because you didn't do any math, unlike me.

Drain Delusions gives highest energy per second.

Now would you mind showing me your own math, where some other skill does more per second?

The only exception is AP build, which is just that, an exception.

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Especially since we all agree that other energy management skills are better in other viable mesmer builds.

Viable does not equal optimal.

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Can't you just leave it at that, rather than affront our sensibilities with talk about how DD is "the best" (especially since there are several qualifiers of what makes a skill "the best").

No, I'll 'affront your sensibilities', because I don't care about your sensibilities. If you want to prove me that Drain Delusions isn't overall the best mesmer energy gain skill, go ahead, do some math. I did it.

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And of course I've tried this build. I hated the fact healers would just stand there spamming spells, oftentimes just making a complete waste of my short-duration trigger-on-attack hexes. So no, I'm not theory crafting. I honestly found it frustrating that I could completely waste an ineptitude before the foe triggered it.

That's because you lack skill to play the build properly.

Healers wasting your trigger on attack hexes? With what?
Ineptitude not triggering? Well observe your enemies, if melee foe is far from target, don't cast it on him. If caster is casting a spell, don't cast it on him.
Healers just standing there and spamming spells? How about set your heroes properly and take proper henchmen, select targets properly etc.

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I posted this build in another topic:

8+1 fast casting, 12+1+3 illusion, 10+1 inspiration
Frustration
Clumsiness
Wandering Eye
Signet of Clumsiness
Leech Signet
Power Drain
Cry of Pain
Tease

Not only does it carry the same omph as your build, Frustration synergizes with clumsiness, wandering, and sig of clumsiness (addint not just packets of 20 damage like fragility, but packets of 53 to 106). tease, power drain, and cry of pain turn into damage (100+ damage) when used with frustration AND it allows one to actively engage spellcasters (providing protection against their offensive spells, if you will note) rather than wait for them to stop casting spells and potentially wasting hexes meant for physical damage dealers.

Finally, you can swap leech signet for DD if you wish to drain frustration too. It's not a bad idea, but I found I did not need any additional energy management when I had tease and power drain.

First, I tried Frustration and Clumsiness and Wandering Eye were not triggering it at all. Don't know if it was a bug, or it had something to do with blindness, but either way it didn't do absolutely anything. So I simply removed that skill. If it does work, then I would certainly put Frustration back in my skillbar where it would work even better with my build. So if someone can actually test this it would be cool.

Second, I don't wait for casters to finish casting spells. I spam Ineptitude etc all the time. There's always someone you can cast it on. You're the one who has to wait for casters with Power Drain and Leech and Tease. You lose spamming time, I don't.

Third, you have half of your skillbar for melee and half for casters. This means you don't have priority target, which means your killing speed is lower overall, which means you need more heals.

Fourth, I don't know what's all the thrill with that CoP skill. Pain Inverter is like 3x better. Melee foes attack real fast, rangers who use that fire prep can die instantly, and any AoE caster can also die instantly. Cry of Pain shouldn't even do 100 damage on a single target, it means you're not killing fast enough.

Fifth, your elite is basically just energy management. Sure, it interrupts casters *once* if you interrupt one of them. In comparison, Ineptitude will deal a LOT of AoE damage, and permanently block melee foes (who also like to go on a single target). When blindness expires you can apply Ineptitude again. I don't want to block the casters from casting the spells anyway, because I'll put Pain Inverter on one of them and puff, if he's dangerous he'll die instantly. It speeds my progress.

Sixth, you have 3 energy gain skills and 1 signet, which either shows that your energy gain skills are not supplying you with enough energy because I find 1 DDrain + signet enough, or it shows that your build is having too much energy which also isn't good because of wasted potential.

Seventh, Leech Signet is overrated. Fast Casting doesn't affect it.

Eight, I'd really like to see how in battle you're babysitting casters at the same time trying to TAB to hex melee guys with Clumsiness (long casting spell) and Signet and Wandering Eye. And then switching back to casters to catch any spells they didn't cast yet. At the same time spamming skills.

FireWhale · Jun 01, 2010, 11:12 AM // 11:12

well aren't you cheeky.

First, it's clear you have a horrible personality and your comments in this section are NOT trying to promote the sharing of knowledge. They are, in actuality, quite detrimental to any mesmers who wish to fully understand their profession. I'll tell you why.

1. You can't seem to make up your mind. First it's "Boo theorycrafting" then the next minute it's "haha look at my math. You haven't done any. it proves I'm the smartest".

Well no. I didn't show my math because you seemed to dislike it (given your incessant complaining about things "working in practice"). Then you somehow try to gain the upper hand by saying "look at my math". Talk about ridiculousness. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Secondly, the math is horrendously painful to calculate. Your rudimentary calculations have absolutely no bearing on what actually works in practice. This is exactly why I agreed to throw theorycrafting out the window.

For everyone else, this is the reason why theorycrafting sucks: Actions have multiple effects. Yes, we should first and foremost evaluate the skill on the intended effect. DD does indeed give 11 energy every ~9 secs. Lyssa's does indeed give 12 energy every 9 secs. (oh btw there's a higher energy per second skill. Proven wrong by your own math. for shame).

However! There are also several side-properties to each skill. To name a few,
DD: requires hex. Casting time+ aftercast time.
Lyssas: Elite skill. Maintainable. Passive. Enchantment prone to stripping.

And those are just the most immediate properties. How do we quantify each of those positives and negatives? How do we quantify the time spent using each skill? WoW, with its huge player base, has talented minds that HAVE calculated out every rotation and every equipment combination to produce the "best". We don't have that (and hopefully never will).

This why Josip is wrong. It is extremely hard to show DD is the best. Josip, you have done math that doesn't accurately reflect the game's mechanics. And yet you tout your poor math calculations as if it's some accomplishment. AND might I remind you that you also said "screw the theorycrafting". Honestly, make up your mind.

2. A retort of "you lack the skill to play the build properly" is not a response. It's an insult. I said I experienced several times where there were only spellcasters spamming spells. You said I don't play properly? Right. Tell that to Borrguus Blisterbark. Or those stone summit. Would spamming ineptitude on those groups work? Honestly, you can "hur hur you just gotta find the ones that are attacking" but it honestly doesn't always happen.

3. Frustration does indeed work with clumsiness. I could say "you lack the skill to properly apply two hexes in a row", but I won't. Oh wait I just did.

http://yfrog.com/4jgw082editj

4. Finally your criticism of my build. Let's start over with your points.

1. I just tested this. Yes, frustration works with clumsiness/etc. Given the synergy between frustration and clumsiness/etc., ineptitude's value is lowered.

2. I want to kill that caster, what do I do. I interrupt him. Looking for another target is a bad idea, especially if it's a modniir bonder.

3. This point is complete jibberish. Just because you say something and throw in buzzwords does not make it true. Melee and spellcaster hate provide diversity and adaptability. 4 anti-melee spells don't. If you disagree, explain the point.

4. Fine, bring Pain inverter. There's still 2 more pve slots so you can get rid of leech signet if you want. Btw, CoP does an instant 156 if used correctly. Btw Pain inverter on melee you just blinded and are constantly interrupted are not going to do much damage to you. I'm not fighting you hard on this point because you bring up a good point. PI is good. However, your "CoP sucks" point is terrible. You didn't even address why it was bad, not even in the context I'm using it in (frustation+CoP).

5. Obviously you don't understand frustration. Secondly, in your fervor you forgot to make sense. First you say "Ineptitude is great protection!" but then you follow with "Who wants protection! I have pain inverter!".

6. Interrupts= damage. Given that I don't have the domination line and illusion does not have any, inspiration is the next reasonable choice. And your "wasted potential" lacks solid reasoning. the only thing that matters is if you have enough energy to keep going. I think most assassins don't lie awake at night trying to figure out how to use all their extra energy.

7. Read my previous post. You can fit your precious drain delusions in there! Not that you need the energy management given p-drain and tease.

8. Are you actually playing your own build? Things die fast with just clumsinesss, wandering, and signet of clumsiness. With my mixed bar I can focus on anything I want and kill it, be it caster or melee. You have much less control and have to pick susceptible targets (aka attacking targets).

Lanier · Jun 01, 2010, 01:58 PM // 13:58

It is pretty awesome how much damage frustration can add.

The other day I was running a Physichic instability build with three rupts and frustration, and it was pretty awesome being able to kill enemies while at the same time completely taking them out of the fight. Necromancers, elementalists, and in some cases, monks, tend to cast nonstop reducing the effectiveness of Ineptitude and really making frustration a fun skill to use.

Oh, and frustration does activate on Ineptitude, sig of clumsiness, wandering eye, and clumsiness. In fact, I use it in my Ineptitude build to add some damage with the above mentioned skills and give me an anti-spellcaster weapon with a couple of rupts.

The Josip · Jun 01, 2010, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireWhale

First, it's clear you have a horrible personality

Common knowledge, but thank you for noticing

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1. You can't seem to make up your mind. First it's "Boo theorycrafting" then the next minute it's "haha look at my math. You haven't done any. it proves I'm the smartest".

Well no. I didn't show my math because you seemed to dislike it (given your incessant complaining about things "working in practice"). Then you somehow try to gain the upper hand by saying "look at my math". Talk about ridiculousness. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Different definitions then. When I say theorycrafting I mean theory-crafting, not theory.

Theorycrafting is when someone looks at Power Drain recharge and energy gain and thinks that in practice he will be able to cast that skill on recharge, successfully, and thus his e-gain will be x per second.

Theory is when you do a math to find out how much DD and PD give energy, in ideal situation. This is good, because it gives basis of calculation.

Practice is when you find out that sometimes you miss DD because hex is gone and you thought it would be there, or target dies at the moment you were about to use DD. Practice is when you find out that sometimes you miss with Power Drain, that in practice enemy doesn't cast skill just when you want it, or enemy has 1/4 skill, or Frustration has been removed, or foe died and new foe has no Frustration hex on it, or your ping is too bad to do this or there's server-side lag etc. Practice is when you find out that even if you're good with TABing, it's never going to be perfect. Practice is when target is half-dead and you can decide between wasting Frustration on it and possibly not interrupting it a single time, or just waste time watching it die.

That's theorycrafting, theory, and practice.

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For everyone else, this is the reason why theorycrafting sucks: Actions have multiple effects. Yes, we should first and foremost evaluate the skill on the intended effect. DD does indeed give 11 energy every ~9 secs. Lyssa's does indeed give 12 energy every 9 secs. (oh btw there's a higher energy per second skill. Proven wrong by your own math. for shame).

Oh poor me. Here's more math to prove me wrong: Tease can theoretically possibly net you 50 energy.

There's no problem with my math, for one simple reason. I don't use math to support theorycraft, but to improve practical aspects. My math will not "forget" things such as "this skill is elite and needs 1 more point in inspiration which equals to 3% high recharge time because FC is going to be 1 point lower" or "the ideal conditions to gain 50 energy from Tease, which is also elite skill, will not be met often, and when they do ideal conditions for Ineptitude will also be pretty much met".

Theorycrafting doesn't suck because actions have multiple effects. Theorycrafting sucks because it's refuted by reality.

You're trying to prove that math is useless because 'you never know'. That's another unhealthy extreme.

[quoteHowever! There are also several side-properties to each skill. To name a few,
DD: requires hex. Casting time+ aftercast time.
Lyssas: Elite skill. Maintainable. Passive. Enchantment prone to stripping.

And those are just the most immediate properties. How do we quantify each of those positives and negatives? How do we quantify the time spent using each skill? WoW, with its huge player base, has talented minds that HAVE calculated out every rotation and every equipment combination to produce the "best". We don't have that (and hopefully never will). [/quote]

That's thinking of weak minds who are not even capable of theorycrafting. It's not advanced stated compared to theorycrafting, it's less advanced.

If the situation is more complex you have to evaluate more things. Yes, evaluation indicates that due to different circumstances the results will not be the same but there will be an average. Perhaps unknown, but knowable.

To answer your question more directly, this is how you quantify each of those positives and negatives:

* If enchantment stripping is likely to happen, the effectiveness of Lyssa's Aura drops depending on the likelyhood of getting disenchanted. Disenchantment also means you have to re-apply the hex which virtually costs nothing pre-battle if you're at max energy anyway, but costs 5e during the battle.

* Aftercast I already calculated. Drain Delusions recharges in 8 seconds, but because of aftercast and casting time I just said 9 seconds. You may correct me if you have better idea. The "I don't know" I don't accept as a valid argument of proving me wrong.

* Hex required is quantified like this: are you using hex X just so you can use DD, or does hex X provide some benefit regardless. If yes, how often can hex X (plus hex Y etc) be cast to provide benefit for DD. How often is benefit of hex X reduced due to premature DD.

If you look at the meteorology, it's impossible to be correct 100% because of a million of factors and circumstances, but you can have a general idea, a trend, and likely estimate. If on the other hand you say that's all nonsense and useless because they can't tell whether there will be 40% of sunshine or 43%, then you get nowhere, fast.

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This why Josip is wrong. It is extremely hard to show DD is the best. Josip, you have done math that doesn't accurately reflect the game's mechanics. And yet you tout your poor math calculations as if it's some accomplishment.

"If I don't get it, it's wrong."

My math is correct.
My practical observation is correct.
The understanding of my text is based on individual capacity.

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AND might I remind you that you also said "screw the theorycrafting". Honestly, make up your mind.

The conflict only exists in your mind. My thinking is way too versatile and complex that you could capture it with a single rule. I don't think in a binary zero-one way.

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3. Frustration does indeed work with clumsiness. I could say "you lack the skill to properly apply two hexes in a row", but I won't. Oh wait I just did.

That's a really bad pitiful attempt at an insult.

Anyway, I did Frustration > Ineptitude combo follow then by Clumsiness and Frustration did not trigger on Ineptitude, nor later on Clumsiness or Wandering Eye. I have absolutely no idea why. I didn't care much either, as I've been eager to test other skills such as Fragility. I have played with Frustration in only one zone, and since it didn't work I didn't have time to test further because so many skills were waiting to be tested.

I'm glad to see that it works on Isle of the Nameless, but I'd still need to test it with Ineptitude to see if the cause of a bug was blindness.

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1. I just tested this. Yes, frustration works with clumsiness/etc. Given the synergy between frustration and clumsiness/etc., ineptitude's value is lowered.

Lowered if Frustration does not trigger because of blindness, but not lowered comparably Tease vs Frustration because Ineptitude does so much more damage, really, and can disable many foes. In HM, having 1-3+ melee foes do no damage at all, while influcing almost 150 dmg on them all the time - is great.

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2. I want to kill that caster, what do I do. I interrupt him. Looking for another target is a bad idea, especially if it's a modniir bonder.

Ok, so you think camping is a good idea. I beg to differ because I find it less effective. That's pretty much it. I'd rather do constant AoE damage than babysit one guy.

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3. This point is complete jibberish. Just because you say something and throw in buzzwords does not make it true. Melee and spellcaster hate provide diversity and adaptability. 4 anti-melee spells don't. If you disagree, explain the point.

I disagree and I'll explain.

Your anti-caster tactic: cast Frustration.. babysit until that guy casts enough spells to sort of kill himself.

My anti-caster tactic: cast Pain Inverter and 2 seconds later the guy is dead.

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4. Fine, bring Pain inverter. There's still 2 more pve slots so you can get rid of leech signet if you want. Btw, CoP does an instant 156 if used correctly. Btw Pain inverter on melee you just blinded and are constantly interrupted are not going to do much damage to you. I'm not fighting you hard on this point because you bring up a good point. PI is good. However, your "CoP sucks" point is terrible. You didn't even address why it was bad, not even in the context I'm using it in (frustation+CoP).

It's not that CoP is bad, it's just that I never liked it personally (subjective), and that I would rather bring Pain Inverter. Pain Inverter is what I use against singled targets. Much like you use Frustration plus everything else against them.

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5. Obviously you don't understand frustration. Secondly, in your fervor you forgot to make sense. First you say "Ineptitude is great protection!" but then you follow with "Who wants protection! I have pain inverter!".

It makes perfect sense because Ineptitude is for melee and Pain Inverter is great against all dangerous casters.

Anyway that's pretty much it. I don't have time left to continue this discussion. If there's anything useful in it cool if not oh well. Either way..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Oh, and frustration does activate on Ineptitude, sig of clumsiness, wandering eye, and clumsiness. In fact, I use it in my Ineptitude build to add some damage with the above mentioned skills and give me an anti-spellcaster weapon with a couple of rupts.

Can you please doublecheck the Frustration + Ineptitude. I really don't know why it didn't trigger for me, and I did not have time to test that more. I currently have GW uninstalled (too busy to play) so can't check it myself.

Xenomortis · Jun 01, 2010, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Anyway, I did Frustration > Ineptitude combo follow then by Clumsiness and Frustration did not trigger on Ineptitude, nor later on Clumsiness or Wandering Eye. I have absolutely no idea why. I didn't care much either, as I've been eager to test other skills such as Fragility. I have played with Frustration in only one zone, and since it didn't work I didn't have time to test further because so many skills were waiting to be tested.

I'm glad to see that it works on Isle of the Nameless, but I'd still need to test it with Ineptitude to see if the cause of a bug was blindness.

Frustration will never trigger on Ineptitude because Ineptitude does not interrupt - it only inflicts blind on the target when it makes an attack (hence the attack usually misses).
I don't know how Ineptitude stacks with Wandering Eye and Clumsiness and so you'd need to test that (I don't have it unlocked on my Mes and I don't feel like capping it or rerolling my PvP character).
Frustration does trigger off Wandering Eye and Clumsiness however.

It's worth noting that Wandering Eye and Clumsiness will both be triggered on the same attack if they're stacked - it seems likely that Ineptitude would be as well.

FoxBat · Jun 01, 2010, 03:07 PM // 15:07

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Originally Posted by Xenomortis

It's worth noting that Wandering Eye and Clumsiness will both be triggered on the same attack if they're stacked - it seems likely that Ineptitude would be as well.

This is true. Clumsiness does not interfere with inept triggering.

I'm not a huge fan of using drain to pull things off of near-dead empathy targets and the like. You usually end up missing out on one or two empathy procs in the process. There's a reason this skill is not used in pvp outside of ether phantom combo, and it's because A) you really want most hexes to last as long as possible, and B) interrupting or removing an enchantment (positive effect) while getting energy is better. That said drain is reliable in that you don't have to care what kind of foes you are facing, and works very well with the handful of AoE hexes.

Lanier · Jun 01, 2010, 03:32 PM // 15:32

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Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Frustration will never trigger on Ineptitude because Ineptitude does not interrupt - it only inflicts blind on the target when it makes an attack (hence the attack usually misses).
I don't know how Ineptitude stacks with Wandering Eye and Clumsiness and so you'd need to test that (I don't have it unlocked on my Mes and I don't feel like capping it or rerolling my PvP character).
Frustration does trigger off Wandering Eye and Clumsiness however.

Hes right. I guess I had always assumed in the past that Ineptitude interupted b/c i didnt think the blind took place until AFTER the attack that activates ineptitude, but what I thought isnt the case.

Ineptitude will NOT trigger frustration. Clumsiness, wandering eye, and sig of clumsiness will trigger frustration. Ineptitude, Wandering Eye, and Clumsiness will all stack. I just tested.

maxxfury · Jun 01, 2010, 11:25 PM // 23:25

I was sure clumsiness and inept were changed so the damage spike was staggered.and didnt stack a huge spike on one hit..and checking wiki notes: seem i didnt have a memory brain fart//

Ineptitude has been changed so that it no longer affects the same attack as clumsiness, Clumsiness triggers a fraction of a second before the attack action would be completed, while Ineptitude triggers at the end of the attack action, which means that if a foe is hexed with both, Clumsiness will trigger on the first attack and Ineptitude will trigger on the second.

unless it changed back with the patch that added aoe to inept?

The Josip · Jun 02, 2010, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Thanks that's really useful information. I'll test it some more now. So if that's how it works I can technically stack immediately Clumsiness on top of Ineptitude.. interesting.
I still need to doublecheck if blinded target is not considered as "not interrupted" when Inteptitude is followed by Clumsiness. But this definitely explained some of the things I was seeing.

draxynnic · Jun 05, 2010, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Actually, there's one thing I think people are missing here...

What's the targetting priorities?

Most of my playing since the update has been Hard Mode against White Mantle and Peacekeepers, and against them the first priority is usually to disable and kill the healers so you can actually kill everything else. Neither Pain Inverter nor anti-physical hexes will help you there. Slowing down their spellcasting and making even the humble Power Return dish out about a hundred points of damage on a successful interrupt, however, does.

Of course, the Mesmer is a profession that rewards specialising against your foe, so if you're not expecting to face healers than that will change your priorities.

The Josip · Jun 06, 2010, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Actually, there's one thing I think people are missing here...

What's the targetting priorities?

Most of my playing since the update has been Hard Mode against White Mantle and Peacekeepers, and against them the first priority is usually to disable and kill the healers so you can actually kill everything else. Neither Pain Inverter nor anti-physical hexes will help you there. Slowing down their spellcasting and making even the humble Power Return dish out about a hundred points of damage on a successful interrupt, however, does.

Well, you could slow down their spellcasting.. or you could just take AP EVAS spam build, Discord heroes, and off you go. Peacekeepers die like everyone else. Fast.

Lanier · Jun 12, 2010, 02:24 PM // 14:24

After pretty extensive testing in a variety of builds and in a variety of different locations, I am going to have to revoke what I said earlier. I can confidently say now that Drain Delusions is the best mesmer energy management skill. Although it wasn't directly buffed in the last update, Drain Delusions did get an indirect buff in that now it has so many hexes to work well with. There are more AoE hexes now which Drain Delusions synergizes with well. There are also many more spammable hexes, many of which are skills whose primary effect takes place immediately and the hex afterwards isn't really of any use and therefore make good drain delusion bait (ex: Enchanter's Conundrum, Wastrel's Demise, Images of Remorse, etc.). I still hold on to the view that the "best" energy management skill is going to be dependant on the area and build, but it seems to me that Drain Delusions works well with almost any build and in almost any area.